Bridging Generations in Sales and Outreach

E4 with Dean Nolley - Old-School Owners, New-School Sales

• Butch Nicholson • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Sales used to thrive on instinct, grit, and handshakes. Today? If your sales process isn’t documented, repeatable, and supported by the right tools, you’re not ready to scale.

In this episode, Butch Nicholson sits down with Dean Nolley, founder of Sales Growth Imagination, to talk about how companies can build sales organizations that actually work, especially as their experienced salesforce begins to retire.

Dean brings more than 35 years of experience in sales leadership and business transformation, and he’s the person companies call when growth has stalled or chaos has taken over.

Tune in to hear practical insights on:

  • Why most companies are “winging it” without a real sales process.
  • How to stop spreadsheet-managing and start using your CRM the right way.
  • What makes modern prospecting work (hint: it’s not cold emails or networking lunches).
  • The overlooked risk of sales rep retirements—and how to prepare now.
  • Why baby boomers and Gen X leaders need to evolve, not start over.

If you’re a seasoned sales leader trying to stay relevant and scalable in today’s digital-first world, this is the conversation you’ve been waiting for.

Bridging Generations in Sales and Outreach is hosted by Robert (BUTCH) NICHOLSON and produced by Fist Bump

Helping Gen X and Baby Boomer leaders turn their reputation into revenue—without losing the human touch.

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(Butch) Welcome to Bridging the Gap in Generations. My name is Butch Nicholson. I am your host today. We started this podcast for this reason. Studies have shown now that 70% of buyers do 70% of their research before they want to engage with a salesperson. So I've been in sales for over 35 years. And one advantage salespeople always had was that(Butch) customers had to come to us to fight to get the information they needed. And that's not true anymore. Now, if you at least have one of these, you can find all the information you need. So one of the things I know buyers buy from people they know, like and trust. That's been true since I started in sales. It's true today. But the way you build, become to know, like and trust(Butch) people is changed. And this show is going to talk about those changes. And I'm glad today to have my friend, Dean Nolley, with sales growth imagination. Dean's been in sales for over I have my friend Dean Nolley with Sales Growth Imagination. Dean's been in sales for over 35 years himself and has done a great job adjusting to the new marketplace. So that's what we're going to talk about today. So Dean, let's just hop straight in. One of the things that fascinated me, and this is like every salesperson's dream,(Butch) you said that now you have companies calling you. And why are they calling you?(Dean) Well, it's usually one of two things. They're either flat in a market that's growing, or they've lost people. They have new competitors, they're struggling with other issues. And unfortunately, they're going backwards on numbers. But so they're really needing someone to come in and really help them fix,(Dean) repair, and really rebuild their process.(Butch) And so how do you do that, Dean?(Dean) That's a great question. I think with when you look at the kinds of scenarios that need the most help, it's either folks like I had said, they're they're in pain, they're needing to rebuild or in that case, you're truly rebuilding. But you also have companies that are growing. They were say 3 million four years ago, they're 12 million today. And that owner, she or he, they're still trying to do what they did when they were 3 million(Dean) at 12. So you can't say that it's broken because it's really never existed. My good friend, Sarah Davis, as you know, at family business at KSU, she kind of coined that one from me and I didn't realize I was saying that, but I think the most important part is you gotta be like a builder and architect. You cannot be a consultant,(Dean) which means you have to dive in, do a full discovery, really get on-boarding on their business, understand it. I try to touch each leader, any one customer facing or at least a subset both with a detailed discovery that's going to touch a number of elements of strategy, process, analytics, measurables, and also the people part. And then followed up with one-on-one interviews.(Dean) I think that when you're touching a lot of customer-facing employees and it's confidential, you're going to uncover things that either they've said before that maybe were overlooked or ignored, or maybe they really weren't comfortable giving that feedback. But I think the key is assessing, getting that data,(Dean) and then working with the leadership to prioritize, okay, what are the next steps? The other part is you gotta be curious, butch, because if anyone comes into your account to help you with sales and they said, they're going to nail it on the discovery. You're going to be ready to go.(Dean) You need to run and run fast, like a forest Gump running away, man. I mean, you're going to find things, not all bad. You're going to find good and bad. And the owner, the team, myself, we have to be curious. We have to be willing to say, maybe we miss some things, but most importantly, you got to be willing to pivot and adapt with what you've found. Um, but at that point, you start building that out very methodically, but, um, I(Dean) know, you know, this, but, you know, I'm a little bit of a, I've had some friends, as you know, Frank Thomas and Bo Grover at the effective syndicate. I mean, they're all around, you know, six Sigma lean process. I'm actually a greenbelt myself. So for a sales leader, sales person, I'm pretty methodical a lot more so than I(Dean) probably should be but you're gonna find me over analyzing but the key is there's usually some basic things that you can touch on first but we're not trying to blow the ocean here and go scale overnight we're just trying to get things fixed and making sure it's working, then making it scalable and then making it scalable.(Butch) So Dean, I'm a real structure guy. I love structure. In fact, a lot of my really good friends make fun on me. I'm one of those crazy people that gets up at 4.30 in the morning and does the same thing for the first couple hours. And I go to bed at the same time every night, get up at the same time every morning.(Butch) So it's very structured. And really what I'm hearing you say is structure, that companies lack having structure that puts together everything like their comp plan,(Dean) their CRM, their sales process, even their closing process.(Speaker 4) Yeah, no, you're right on the mark,(Dean) but unfortunately you could ask one question and that is do you have a documented sales process? 95% of businesses below 50 million do not. It doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing and don't know how to go do things, but it's not well-documented, it's not structured.(Dean) Most important, and you speak of structure, you're right on the mark because if you don't have every step in the sales process where it's documented and that it's repeatable for every salesperson, that means your team is basically winging it and doing what they think is right. Well, you may get away with that for a while, but what happens when you now are growing and you're adding new people(Dean) and you don't have a way to onboard them with a repeatable step, but equal as important as the repeatable part in each step of the sales funnel, you gotta make sure you're getting the predictable outcome that the company needs from a revenue(Dean) and a profit perspective. So just doing a lot of activity, while that sounds good, it's only good if that activity is the right activity that's moving deals through the funnel and actually getting that predictable outcome(Dean) that the company's investing in.(Butch) Yeah, that reminds me, one of the guys that was my manager at some point in my career said, all hard work gets you is tired if you're not doing it smart. Hey, glad to have Dave on the call with us today(Butch) or the show with us today. Dave said, I know that I certainly buy differently when I purchase something. I pretty much do my own research. So that goes back to the study. My girlfriend makes fun of me. I'm sure everybody is familiar with Costco and Costco is a huge warehouse kind of shopping place for food, clothes, things like that. And when I go there, I can go, what takes people an hour and a half to do,(Butch) I can do in about 15 minutes because I know where I'm going, what I'm buying,(Dean) don't need to talk to anybody and I don't need anybody to get in my way. One, I think Dave's comments are right on the mark. I think one of the biggest challenges I see are business owners are very busy in their business and sometimes consumed in their business. So they're doing a lot of things to grow the business, make it successful.(Dean) At times they don't have time to look up and they may be blinded by some of the issues, but unfortunately, Butch, and you know that we talk about this at TrustEgrity and some of the other groups that you and I have been a part of.(Dean) Unfortunately, a lot of the business owners when they have reached out in the past, and it doesn't matter if it's sales, marketing, finance, whatever it may be, unfortunately, they get sold. And I think that part makes it more difficult for owners to feel comfortable reaching out. They're getting a lot of different answers. It can be very confusing and unfortunately most people that reach out for help that I'm getting calls on or recommendation from say(Dean) Vistage CEO chair, I mean those folks are wonderful and or trusted advisors like yourself and and others. I'm normally getting that call or having that meeting probably two, three, four years after they probably should have spoke with someone, but and that's the part that makes it a little bit of fire drill mode on the front end. And unfortunately it's kind of festered over that period of time.(Dean) So, um, I think that part is really important that when owners do reach out, you can't sell them. You gotta listen. And I felt like in a sales guy, I'm like on double secret probation. And especially with sales led owners,(Dean) because as you know, when I had my own company, Peter, Sini and I, when I had a company, Peter, senior, and I, when we grew that, we want everything in sight. But I can tell you now, I was on the sell side. And if someone came in to try to help me put more structure and discipline and start touching my sales engine or my baby,(Dean) I would have been probably the worst person to make a call on. So it's kind of comical that I know and that guy going in, but I fully understand how hard that lady, that man has been to build that business, that team. So you have to make sure that you're trying to come in to help and understand that, hey, this is a big decision to reach out and have someone diving in to help as a partner.(Dean) Yeah, I think for me, it was like Dave said in the in the chat, he said a duplicatable sales process is critical. I believe there's an art and a science to sales. And I think your duplicatable, repeatable process is the science part. There are things that we know we need to do, and that's probably 80% of sales.(Dean) I believe there has to be room for the art too. You know, I'm going to close different than you. Speak to that a little bit. Well, I mean, you have to build a process. And when I say a process, think about your funnel from the time that you're doing the research to find(Dean) your prospects hopefully the companies and I know we're going to talk about some technology and tools a little later, but Hopefully you're doing the right thing to get the most qualified opportunities to your business and hopefully you've put enough research in that part and tools so that you're hitting where you make your most money too. But at the end of the day.(Dean) Every rep, you've got to have a process that they follow. Now, I'm not saying that each person is not different because then at a sales manager or an owner level, wherever those people are reporting, as you know, I've got multiple accounts where I'm actually managing sales teams(Dean) up to three, four people right now for different companies. You know, one on a long-term, one on an interim basis till we put that leader in place. And I think at the leader perspective, you then have to figure out how do you motivate and keep each person held to the sales process, but knowing that each person is going to put(Dean) their own personality and they're going to do it slightly different. But ultimately, you got to make sure that that process and the predictable outcome is occurring. Because how you manage, say, an A player versus a B versus a C plus, different parts of what's important to them, you've gotta be as smart as a manager to make sure you're adapting that part of the behavior(Dean) without question. But ultimately, if you start swaying from a solid process and start making bold exceptions, that's where I think you're going to put yourself in a predicament and a challenge.(Butch) So Dean, let me ask you this. In a sales process, you've got an open business, you've got to keep up with what you have open, you know, CRM, something like that. You're going to have two, three meetings before you close. You've got to close the deal. Then you have to make sure that whatever you promised, whatever you made in the deal is going to be delivered. Where do you see the weakness in that chain most of the time when you do your(Butch) thorough examination of it?(Dean) Well, I mean, unfortunately, what I see the most is people either are spreadsheet managing everything and don't have a CRM or they have a CRM and they found out the expense of what it costs to integrate that and they have the web hooks into and every other tools so that you can effectively use that CRM to really manage your business. So you don't have the dashboards built, you don't really tie it to your process.(Dean) Um, I'm dealing with several clients now where I have integrators, I have multiple integrator partners. And what's nice about some of these partners, if you have the right ones, they're agnostic to the CRM, they don't care which one you have. They're not trying to sell you something new. They're just trying to make what you have work and to then integrate it with the(Dean) right tools. But we're working through one now where one of the clients would swear that they have effective dashboards. It wasn't even dashboards. So what it was is sets of data that you could see. So I think the effective aspect is, you've now got that sales funnel. You've perfected it, you've built it.(Dean) Now you gotta make sure it's set up so that every step of that is graphically displayed. You have the dashboards, you can actually see that part. And then also you can generate the reports that you need from those dashboards. So you're making it very easy, it's got to be intuitive. Probably the most important part with this and it goes back to process but also ties in the CRM,(Dean) there can't be any BS in the process. What I mean by that is a lot of companies overact and they come up with KPIs that are absolutely meaningless and it's not giving them the predictable outcome. It's almost like punishment is the best way I would say. So what you have to have and others are very lenient. So the salespeople really aren't being held accountable. So you have to have the balance.(Dean) So when we build this in the sales process, tie in the measurables and the KPIs into the CRM, we've got to have a complete sign off on the sales professionals, the manager and the owners, making sure that everyone agrees that it's fair and balanced so that people aren't putting garbage in(Dean) the CRM or doing garbage activities. But it's we got to make sure the activities are producing the results the company needs to be successful. So I think if you can get that balance up front, you are going to be in a much better place. And if you don't get the balance, you will have a problem. It's just a matter of when.(Speaker 6) And it's either gonna be-(Dean) Go ahead. One of the problems I've found is, and I've had actual experience with this. I did some consulting for some very high-end financial advisors. This was 10 years ago, but I'm sure it's still true today.(Dean) When we sat down and actually went over what they considered their pipeline, when we went over it just, you know, person by person, company by company, most of them, I would say at least we had to cut 50% of what they thought their pipeline was. It just wasn't realistic. They were keeping things that were way past ever being able to close. How do you deal with that? I would say that what you just brought up,(Dean) unfortunately, we see that in most companies. And unfortunately what happens, and it happens not just with small business it it's probably worse in corporate America but you have this part of trying to generate you know lead gen demand gen opportunities and if that search engine isn't built correctly, where it's reflection of your company and your brain,(Dean) everything about it, product services, competitive advantages, go to market strategy, buyer persona. If you haven't done that, you're not going to get as good a quality output. What happens, marketing starts pointing at sales saying, hey, we're given these leads and the salespeople(Dean) aren't working it. The salespeople are going, hey, only one out of every 20 is meaningful. So how do I effectively go through the 19 that's not? So you constantly see chicken egg. But I think that, you know, as you build up this sales process, tying in the CRM, it's critical to have the marketing group as part of that process. I mean, collaboration with marketing and sales is critical,(Dean) but there are some tools, but that are now game changers. And some of these tools were not affordable for a small business as recent as three, four years ago. So things that were only available for the government or corporate, Fortune 500, let's call it, Fortune 1000, from an affordability perspective.(Dean) A lot of these are now subscription basis.(Butch) Hey, Dan, let me interrupt you for a second because you just brought up something that you can address what you were talking about, but add to it. One of the things I've found with companies is you get in there and they have all these great tools, but they don't know how to use them.(Butch) So when you're working with businesses, how do you help them maximize the tools they have, the tools they're not using? Also, you know, in the last two years, everybody's life has changed because of AI, and it certainly changed it in a really good way for people in sales. How are you(Dean) working with companies to make sure they're maximizing what they already have or what they can do in addition to what they have? That's a great question. As you know, I'm blessed with a very strong tool set of good partners from sales acceleration that have been very aggressively vetted. I've also in Atlanta I'm blessed with, and you know some of them, local partners that are equally as good like my friend Dimitri over at FBX, Sales Hub, HQ is an example. Any partner that I bring to a client, I tried to put one or two partners(Dean) for them to have a conversation, but I don't work with any partners. That training and assuring that that process is implemented, everyone is trained, have learned, both initially and ongoing.(Dean) If that's not built in by the partner, I'm not gonna bring that partner into an account because Otherwise people go right if they don't use it. They're gonna lose the knowledge to your point So those partners the integration part the setup that's important, but the initial and ongoing training and learning is even more critical. And you're going to be onboarding future employees as well. So that's going to be all part of that go-to-market strategy(Dean) so that you built a library of training tools for the future employees and you have the right partners that you know that are going to continue to help develop your people.(Butch) Yeah, I know that that's a challenge and I'm a good example. When I started working with Fist challenge and I'm a good example.(Speaker 5) When I started working with Fistbump two and a half years ago(Dean) in that two and a half years, I've learned more about technology than I did in the 65 years before that. And it's hard. It's it's hard for first year experience guys who may very well be your best salespeople to accept that they need to start using those kind of tools. Dave asked another good question. He said what would you say to a company that doesn't have a marketing department CRM? Well, you will struggle to scale if you're(Dean) trying to spreadsheet manage. I can assure you it's not repeatable. It's definitely not going to be a predictable outcome. I think Dave also threw another question up that's right on the same mark. Unfortunately, about 50% of the companies I touch(Dean) do not have a CRM that they're using on the sales side. They could be using the CRM on marketing with the digital design library and doing newsletters, promotional, and that communication. But on the sell side in the pipeline management, 50% of the companies I touched do not have a CRM.(Dean) And here's the scary step. 50% of those aren't using it effectively or at all butch. Well, let's talk about, let's change the kind of the focus here for a minute. And let's talk about what is the focus of the show, Baby Boomers, Gen Xers.(Dean) We talked earlier about the way people, the way people buy has remained the same. They want to buy from somebody they know, like, and trust. But how you build know, like, and trust has changed. When I was coming up, the way you got people to know, like, and trust is you had lunches,(Dean) you took people to dinners, you took people to play golf, you took people to plays, to concerts. You did anything you could do and it was all face to face and it worked well, but it took a really long time. The problem with that today, the average study show in the last couple of years that the average B2B(Dean) buyer is 39 years old.(Speaker 4) Now I can relate to a 39 year old because I have a daughter that's 40 years old(Butch) and I have a son-in-law who's 43 years old. Well that's kind of hard with you at 39. Yeah it is but we manage it. When she turned 40 I told her that it was impossible for her to be 40 because I was only 53. When my son in law is a very successful guy. Well, if you call my son in law and said, I want to talk to you about this, let's meet for lunch. He would he would say, why do we need to meet for lunch? We can do that in a 15 minute zoom call. And that's hard. It's a hard thing to accept for people that are older because we just weren't used to(Butch) dealing that way. One of the things you told me, kind of flipping it, one of the things you told me that you faced is you're running into sales teams, where the whole sales team are baby boomers or Gen Xers and they're starting to retire and the owner or the or the CEO is just stuck trying to figure out how he's going to make that shift(Dean) in his in his sales force. Yeah, the, as you know, I spent a lot of time with XPX and a lot of trusted advisors there that are working with owners generally on long-term strategic exit strategies. And, you know, one of the stats that everyone talks about is how many traditionalists and baby boomers are selling their business, transitioning to the next generation of the family. Some of these apps, not many, but what they don't talk about is, and(Dean) I'm gonna throw out a question to you just to see if you know, because it's a staggering number in my opinion. For every business owner that's leaving the workforce to retirement, health, relocation, you know, to be with family, um, of a $20 million company. How many sales professionals do you think that are also leaving the workforce at that size company?(Speaker 3) Well, I'd have no idea.(Dean) The average is three. So, think about baby boomers leaving companies that have 20, 30 year plus tenure. They're loyal. Your service is better than the owners will in a lot of cases. They most definitely know the customers, they have the relationships, they know the competitors,(Dean) they know the prospects, they know channel partners. Now you're losing all that intellectual knowledge, you're losing great people that really care. So, it is absolutely challenging companies to say, how do I change my culture(Dean) so that I can still attract baby boomer or other age millennials, but how can I do the same with Gen Y, Gen Z? And oh, by the way, we're four years away from a technology surge with the alphas that no one's gonna even know what hit them.(Dean) I mean, and as you know, I mean, we all know those. I mean, if I look at my youngest son who just graduated and now he combined his business degree in MIS and he's in cyber for EY. Let me tell you, if he's not playing with technology, everything he does, and they're not investing in him, and him seeing himself personally develop.(Dean) He's not going to stay there. And I don't think he's unusual. I think he's very similar to anyone in that gap. So I think companies, it's hard work. I mean, because you're trying to keep the really good tenured employees as long as you can, and you're trying to attract the younger(Dean) generations, but you absolutely have to have the technology. But as you add the technology, you do have a lot of baby boomers that are saying, I really don't want to deal with that technology. So you kind of have a double-edged sword in your hands. But I can tell you that there's a lot of technology that is enabling companies to better support their salespeople. And in some cases, certain functions that you may have required a person, BDR, inside rep, there's some technologies that's enabling you to get the same results with just the technology.(Dean) So I think companies are gonna have to build the culture and figure out their balance between all of the above. And there's not an easy answer, but it's a lot of hard work.(Butch) Yes, yes it is, yes it is. But one thing we know, there are some people that are really good at this, but it's very few. And if you're one of the people that's very good at what I'm fixing to say, keep doing it. But what we do know, cold emails aren't working anymore. You know, when you turn on your computer in the morning, Dean, I would imagine you probably have 35, 40 emails every morning.(Dean) And the way I look through emails, and you probably do too, I look for who sent it. And if I don't know the person or the company that sent it, I just delete it. Same with the phone call. I can't tell you the last time I answered my phone, if I didn't know who it was.(Dean) And there are a lot of companies that did great for years with email, cold email and cold calls, and it just doesn't work anymore. No, it, um, without question. And I know I wake up in the morning I look at the email I gotta be honest I mean it's you got to figure out how to communicate as well because I've got a lot of clients and trusted advisors that prefer text some prefer a(Dean) phone call, some are on Teams, that's how they wanna communicate. They expect me to be on Teams on my mobile. So you got three accounts on Teams, well, guess what? You're toggling between accounts. And so you do need to understand how do people, how do they want to communicate?(Dean) And that's not really generational. The newer, the younger generations clearly are adapting more to text and different other, what's that, other technology. But it's important that you know how best to communicate because if not, we're all the same. I mean, people aren't responding.(Dean) Then you realize I got one client that 100% wants a text and we're talking to CEO. No, I don't wear out the text, but if there's something important and I see a text from that leader, you better believe I'm responding immediately. Uh, and like, likewise, when I send a text, you know, I'm going to send something that's important in addition to, you know, whatever normal updates. Um, but I think everyone, and that's, that's a challenge for the business owners, they wake up and there's so much garbage they're having to see on email and(Dean) junk and in mail on LinkedIn.(Butch) Yeah, they just ignore it.(Dean) Messages and everybody's trying to tell them why they're special and their stuff is good. And I'm telling you, these folks do not wanna be sold. And here everyone is just dumping more crap their way and it makes it tough. It makes it very confusing. All right, Dean, I have one more thing I wanted us to talk about.(Dean) Because for baby boomers, because I was one and I went through this, LinkedIn is like the big unknown out there. And I understand because it was me two and a half years ago when I came to work for fist bump, my LinkedIn profile was four jobs old. And the last time I commented was sometime(Dean) in the 1900s I think. But LinkedIn is accepted as the business social media site. And I believe that if you're in sales, you've got to have a presence on LinkedIn. So I know you use LinkedIn. Well, tell, tell our audience how you use LinkedIn in a business situation, promote your business? That's a great question. I use LinkedIn really for to build the reputation on(Dean) the company. What I do, I use it to give to help others. You'll see a ton of posts from me that will focus a spotlight of like, most recently Terry Smith Rocca or Joe Milner and another group or Hong Wong in a different, Demetri at FBX. I'm trying to promote other people. And if you didn't see that it came from my site, you wouldn't even know I was a part of it.(Dean) I think I get more out of that. I use one tool for my business to build relationships. It's not on the market yet. I'm under, I was in DA, it's now out, it's in alpha. It's David Knorr and Avner. Um, it absolutely helps me have an intentional cadence every day.(Dean) There are certain people that are important for me long-term and I'm trying to see their posts and actively do things to help make and I'm gonna say meaningful comments. I mean I screw that up like anyone else but I try not to create noise. There's way too much noise on LinkedIn so I use it from that perspective as a touch point. No different than a networking meeting. No different than when I present or run workshops.(Dean) As you know, I do a lot of those, probably the most important thing that I do. But the key is, you know, I try to be repeatable and there's so many numbers that are just frightening. I think you'll hear people say that you need to touch someone. As in times before you really resonate people say that you need to touch someone as in times before(Dean) you really resonate and they understand you. Well, there's others that are saying that there's a 510X multiplier to that. Because you need to touch them that many times while they're getting what you're saying, there's gonna be a lot of touch points that you don't. But I think on LinkedIn, I look at it as a part to build my brand, to build the reputation. I use it to try to complement the other activities I'm doing and it's(Dean) a lot of work. You'll see podcasts, you'll see live Um, you'll see a lot of posts that are around the kind of support I do to help people with sales. Um, but the majority of this stuff, if you see me making a comment, if I'm less than 75% of comments that are helping someone else, I'd be very surprised. Cause I think that to build your reputation, you've got to, I know you, me and Butch, or Brandon rather, have talked about this. You got to give, you got to give more, and you got to give more.(Dean) And you got to help other people. And it'll come back around. You may not know from whom and where, but that's okay. So I think that's how I use LinkedIn. And it's more for my trusted advisors. I know some business owners have responded on LinkedIn, but I use it more for the company branding overall and tie that to other mediums, like my company LinkedIn site, in addition to my personal,(Dean) into my different websites that I use. I try to kind of link all those together. But there's one thing. So Dean let's wrap up with this. What I did is absolutely game-changer. Dean let's wrap up with this. When we were talking, you said you can't scale what's not documented.(Butch) So take just a minute and tell us what you meant by that.(Dean) If, I mean, there was a one actually next week. No, I'm sorry. It's week after on the 30th. You'll see us doing a show talking about status sales for 2025. And unfortunately, 95% of companies do not have a documented process. But let's say things are working OK.(Dean) I mean, you know what to do, generally speaking, but each rep may be tweaking it. They have multiple managers. They may be putting their flavor to it. Yeah. And then next thing you know, you're really inconsistent. Well, now you have, you're ready to go scale. Well, you have to kind of back up. You got to dive in. You've got gotta build out that framework and that blueprint, and you've gotta make sure(Dean) that every element of strategy, process, all the measurables, all the people part are in place because it's not just for today's org team. That bullpen, whether right or wrong, fair or not fair, it's going to be really different in five years. Leader and people. So you're building this for today's group so that you know that everything's repeatable, that you're(Dean) doing it every step of the funnel, but you also know that it's producing the predictable outcomes for each step to ultimately help you scale that business. But as you scale, you're gonna be growing probably the number of people as well. So anyone new you're bringing in, Butch, if you don't have that ironclad and documented(Dean) and in a process, how are you gonna onboard all those new people you need to scale and grow your business? To me, that's one of the biggest things that absolutely is missing. Most people try to scale and then they have to slow down because you start losing a few people or you start realizing, why am I not getting these results?(Dean) And half my team is doing one thing and not the other half. Well, they may still be doing what they did before, not adapting to, say, a new product, a new service, a new channel strategy, whatever it might be. But the documentation and that framework with the blueprint, that's really giving you the predictable path for five years(Dean) plus out. Thanks, Dean. So I'm gonna wrap it up with this. The purpose of this show is to help Gen Xers and baby boomers bridge that gap between generations in sales and outreach. I'm a little biased. Fist Bump is a sponsor of our show,(Dean) and I work for Fist Bump. We can definitely help you with that. If you need help, just contact me. If you need help with what Dean talked about today, you can reach him on LinkedIn. One thing to remember, this isn't gonna happen overnight. It's taken me two and a half years.(Dean) It's about evolving, not starting over. It's about taking what you know from your experience in sales over the years, combining it with really cool technology that exist out there today, that you are smart enough to learn and continuing to have success as those of us age out as we get older and older. So thank you for being with us today and we'll be back here next week same time, same station(Dean) being with us today and we'll be back here next week same time, same station and have a great week. Thanks Bud. Thanks for having me buddy.