Bridging Generations in Sales and Outreach

E10 with Katherine Knott - The Buyer Changed, But Your Instincts Didn’t

• Butch Nicholson • Season 1 • Episode 10

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In this episode, Butch Nicholson sits down with licensed counselor and longtime friend Kate Knott, who brings a neuroscience-backed perspective on fear, judgment, and decision-making in high-stakes business conversations.

Kate’s expertise spans trauma-informed therapy, behavioral psychology, and communication making her the perfect guest to explore why today’s B2B buyers often hesitate, stall, or say “no” when what they’re really feeling is uncertainty.

You’ll hear how the brain processes risk, why “I don’t have time” usually means “I don’t want to look bad,” and how the deepest buyer objections aren’t logical, they’re emotional.

She unpacks the biological roots of hesitation, the sales mistakes that escalate buyer anxiety, and how seasoned sellers can shift from pushing to understanding.

If you're a Gen X or Boomer business leader trying to sell to modern buyers, this conversation offers a clear-eyed view of what’s really going on behind the scenes and how to meet it with empathy, not pressure.

Bridging Generations in Sales and Outreach is hosted by Robert (BUTCH) NICHOLSON and produced by Fist Bump

Helping Gen X and Baby Boomer leaders turn their reputation into revenue—without losing the human touch.

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(Speaker 2) Welcome to Bridging Generations in Sales and Outreach. I'm Butch Nicholson and I am your host today. This is where experience comes to level up. And I'm very excited today to have my friend, Catherine Knott, on the show to discuss something that we all deal with at some level, and that's fear. And we'll call her Kate here because(Speaker 2) our friends call her Kate, and that's what I always call her. So Kate, welcome to the show.(Speaker 1) Oh, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here with you. And if you'd like to take a minute and introduce yourself, that would be great. Certainly. As Butch has said, I'm Catherine Knott. I go by Kate. I answered either one. I am a licensed professional counselor. I have an undergrad degree in psychology, and my master's is in clinical mental health. I've worked in a variety of different settings, stabilization hospitals, also outpatient addiction treatment centers. And now I'm in my own private practice(Speaker 1) where I assist individuals as well as couples. And I have additional training in neuroscience, trauma-specific modalities of therapy, and cognitive behavioral therapy, and also in couples counseling. So I like to work sort of whatever comes in the door, I'm going to put together the best(Speaker 1) program to help you effectively and efficiently. Great. Oh, by the way, if you have any questions(Speaker 2) for Kate or me, there is a chat. You can put your questions in the chat, your comments in the chat, those are all welcome. Yeah. So Kate, this show is about bridging generations in sales and outreach. One of the things that's happened in sales(Speaker 2) is a lot of baby boomers and some older Gen Xers who didn't think they were gonna be working at the age they are now. I would be included in that group. 207 hit, the crash came, and some of us got wiped out and we're still working. And we've experienced two things in the marketplace. One is the average B2B buyer, according to a, it's'm pushing 70. My daughter's 40. I can assure you, my daughter buys different than I did. I can imagine very differently. So yeah.(Speaker 2) Also, when I started in sales, the only way a buyer could get information was to contact a salesperson.(Speaker 5) Okay.(Speaker 2) In today's world, where we all have one of these, again, studies show that buyers do 75% of their research before they want to engage with a salesperson.(Speaker 1) Okay. That's crucial information.(Speaker 2) Yeah. So from your side, dealing with people that you deal with, can you address that, how those changes affect(Speaker 6) Absolutely.(Speaker 2) The mental side of what we do?(Speaker 1) A hundred percent, because I do want to also give you great kudos, because when you approached me about doing this with you, other than just being happy to be with you and share this time with you, I thought, wow, thank goodness because you are exactly right. This information is a game changer. It's a gold mine because it's, as you said, we've got two different generations, completely(Speaker 1) different in terms of how the brains and bodies work. And so if we can add the piece of knowledge about what is it that we have in common, why are we driven to make the decisions that we make, what's going on in our brain and in our body, and then how are we different? It is a goal. We could do like a whole mini-series on this, achieving goals to whatever, but this is great, so I'm glad to have the opportunity.(Speaker 1) Let's start with the very basic, okay? The very basic is we have certain things that are just in common from an evolutionary standpoint with the brain. For today's information, I'm going to keep it super basic. And that is we can go with the original understanding of the brain, the very beginnings that we knew about the brain, the triune brain. Now, if you haven't heard of that,(Speaker 1) maybe you've heard of the three different, what it refers to with the triune. And there's the reptilian brain. Okay. That is the, that was formed first and its only job in the world is to keep you alive. So it assesses for danger. And it is basing that information off of five, your five senses. So whatever is being input, it goes first through that area. That area will very quickly below your level.(Speaker 1) You're not aware that this is happening, but it's happening all the time, even when you walk outside, okay? So it's going to make a determination. Is there a threat here that I need to go into fight or flight, faint or freeze?(Speaker 1) Or if not, then that information is passed along to the next part of the brain that was developed and created. It is the mammalian brain. Think about how animals communicate. They don't use the languages that we do.(Speaker 1) They don't use words. Now the reason this is crucial information for people in the business world is because research shows, and this is copious amounts of research, I have seen the studies that I go off of say 80% or more of our decisions are made by that area of the brain. It drives our decisions, it drives our behaviors. It's the frontal lobe, the prefrontal cortex, the neocortex, our fully evolved brain has nothing to do with it. So if we can understand the why's behind that and what is really(Speaker 1) going on in our brain and body, we can then better communicate with others because we'll have a sense as to what's happening with them and why. Now, you did mention how buyers are different and they've got the phones, right? That's crucial information too because generationally, we have to understand that our brains go off of experience. They develop certain beliefs and understandings about the way the world works and where do I fit in it and what do I do. Okay. The world has changed(Speaker 1) and the brain is neoplastic, meaning it can create different pathways and it does. It responds to the experiences that we have, and it creates pathways, those become our beliefs. But it's also changing a structure because people that have been raised on the instantaneous information, the brain works differently. It has to because there's instantaneous information. There's everything coming at you a lot faster. And we are flooded, flooded with sensory details that really do affect the brain.(Speaker 1) From a dopamine, I mean, we can get super complicated. But we have to understand what is driving. Because if we can understand that, we will know what are our clients, our buyers, what are they afraid of? If I can understand your fear,(Speaker 1) then I can communicate with you and know how to deal with that and to lower that.(Speaker 2) So let me ask you, or let me tell you something and then I'd like you to address this. Okay. So 95% of, at Fistbump, 95% of our customers are CEOs, sales leaders. For the most part, they are older Gen Xers and baby boomers. Okay. The number one objection I get always when talking to them about what we do is I don't have time. So the buyers don't have time? It comes out, no, well our buyers don't have time.(Speaker 2) Right. So that's the response. That's the response we always get. If it's not 100%, it's 99.9.(Speaker 1) Wow.(Speaker 2) Once we start... Oh, go ahead. Normally what happens when we start talking to them and really understanding... Now, time is valid. I mean, these people have big time jobs, but they do have pressures on their time. It is, yeah. But they like what we do.(Speaker 9) Okay.(Speaker 2) And I believe the real fear, once we talk to them, tell them what we do, how we do it, the real fear is, I don't understand how it works and I'm scared to death to look bad.(Speaker 1) Yeah, you're absolutely right. You've nailed it. And if I can add a little bit of more color to your picture here. Yes, the number one fear of people is judgment because judgment can open us up to rejection(Speaker 1) and at the very basic level, we all want to be accepted. So let's first look at the objection. When we are faced with a decision, people are looking to us, and I'm talking from the buyer's perspective, okay? People are looking to us to make a decision about our future as a company. That's a lot of pressure. So already that's sort of anxiety producing. You got to make a big decision. Now, because you mentioned that they come to the table having done a lot of research, now what's happened? They have gotten a lot of options(Speaker 1) and it starts to swirl around that they are not familiar with it. Those are key points. The amount of information that they're taking in and what they don't know. Our brains and bodies are going to respond(Speaker 1) to the unknown as dangerous and it will produce a feeling and that will generally come out in stress, anxiety, frustration. You might put things off. Now because it feels this way, when you are face to face as a buyer with the seller, those emotions and those physical tells come up and you feel uncomfortable. The immediate reaction is going to want to make that go down, okay, because it(Speaker 1) doesn't feel good. It feels like pressure and you're on the spot. So you just want this to go down. It will help to understand the reason they are using time is exactly what you said. You said to me, it's reasonable. So that lets people off the hook and immediately their anxiety kind of goes down because I know I'm telling you something that, how are you going to challenge me on my time? What do you know?(Speaker 1) My time is preppy. Everybody uses it. So that's an acceptable response. Therefore, I will no longer be pushed. Therefore, my anxiety goes away. Does that make sense?(Speaker 2) Makes complete sense.(Speaker 1) Yeah. So I think that from the seller's perspective, if you can take that knowledge and then recognize that inside of you, the same situation is going on. Okay? Your job, your judgment comes from your sales.(Speaker 1) So if you're able to sell, that's where your pressure comes from. You want to close this deal. Because you know, coming to the table, that you want them to buy into this, you want them to say, yeah, okay, I'm in, I'm all in, right? That's where your approval comes from. So your fear would be that you can't get them to just freaking make the decision, like come in with me, agree with me, accept me.(Speaker 1) So when we sense their hesitation, that creates that sensation in us, the emotional reaction in us of frustration because just do it, buddy. So we start sometimes the urge, the inclination, our behavior is pushed towards doing the opposite of what we should do. We try to convince them as to why we are right(Speaker 1) and they are wrong. And that is exactly the wrong way to go. And here's why. Remember the brain that I talked about, the mammalian brain. Our brains work off of past experiences to create beliefs. The number one place the brain doesn't want to allow you to sit in is in the unknown because(Speaker 1) I don't have power in the unknown. That's a horrible feeling. So the decision in that mammalian brain is going to sense, I don't have control over this and I'm afraid because it's the unknown. And your automatic behavior is going to push you into what the brain has learned will bring you relief. And that's to get out of the situation or double down on what I'm trying to accomplish with you.(Speaker 1) So if you can see it sort of from that perspective, how the buyer is feeling is like, get me the heck out of here. What can I say to make this go away? And then the seller, they are going to go in the opposite direction. They're being pushed to convince you why this is a good decision. Now the way we can actually utilize this(Speaker 1) is if I know if and you tell me what you weigh in here when you are having a sort of a conversation with somebody and you're trying to convince them of something. They have a completely different opinion and or they're hesitant. How do they, how does a person react when you challenge what they are saying?(Speaker 2) So I believe, I believe that in a sales situation, you can't make the other person wrong.(Speaker 1) You're right. Now tell me what they do.(Speaker 2) So what I always do, and especially let's just take this example that I had. If they say, I don't have time. What I say is I don't have time. Right. I might, what I say is I a hundred percent understand that.(Speaker 1) Bingo. And here's why I wanted to jump in here because what is crucial here is the idea that if you challenge a person right off the bat, if I jump into trying to convince you, it's like I'm dismissing your reality that person is automatically going to withdraw their literally their body and(Speaker 1) That area the brain that we're talking about is going to react and recoil it is Biological imperative that they do so. It will happen. And so you can even pick up on the body language when this happens, but that's almost like when you're having an argument,(Speaker 1) the worst thing that you can do is dismiss the other person because they are going to, they're gonna become loaded for bear. I mean, it escalates. So what you want to do is counter to what you're really kind of wanting to do. And that is to do exactly as you said, Butch.(Speaker 1) That is to allow their distress to go down by saying, yeah, I get it. I truly do. Empathy.(Speaker 2) So let's say we get past that. Okay. That objection. What I really believe, and this has happened enough times to be 100% valid, their real fear is either of they don't know how to do it and they're scared to death of looking bad.(Speaker 2) So let's talk about being scared of looking bad.(Speaker 4) Let's do.(Speaker 15) So-(Speaker 2) You and I just, you and I talked about the book, The Jolt Effect.(Speaker 14) Yeah.(Speaker 1) What a great book.(Speaker 2) Yeah. And the fear of missing out or the fear of messing up. So talk about that if you would, please.(Speaker 1) So let's do, because that's a super important thing. And I love that you brought up the book. That was a good book, and thank you for turning me on to that. We have to look at the fear of messing up, making the wrong decision. Remember when we talked about fear of judgment? This is where acceptance comes in. Through our life, because we are evolved, okay, now we could argue that(Speaker 1) point after some of the conversations that we have with certain people, but because we are evolved, we are somewhat hindered by our reptilian and mammalian brain, okay? And we are hindered in the way that this thinking brain, it's going to sometimes be counter, it fights against it, because ultimately, we need to be approved of and accepted because it is a biological imperative that we have connection to others. That's where the mammalian brain started in. So that's connection and acceptance. That's safety to(Speaker 1) our brains. Now I'm talking to those areas of the brain. That's safety. So the fear of being, making the wrong decision, okay, or the fear of missing out on something, like I don't want to screw up because I don't want to be rejected. I don't want to be blamed if this goes bad. Look at all the pressure though. I mean, if you're on the buyer's side, you're making a decision for everybody else. All eyes are on you.(Speaker 1) And if you mess up, that will feel terrible, awful. That's what drives the fear. And we can look at it from the flip side too, from the seller's side. You have a big responsibility too. A lot's riding on your shoulders. And depending upon individuals and how you grew up and what are your beliefs about what drives you to be accepted(Speaker 1) by others, and this starts from childhood, in our environment, We are experiencing things and we will gather those experiences and develop a belief of what gets me approval and what gets me disapproval. And our decisions and choices are made based off of that, as well as our shame and embarrassment and frustration. So learning more about how do you respond?(Speaker 1) What are your what are your internalized beliefs? According to that, your experience that will tell you a lot about how you operate. So if you can understand and learn more about the individual as well as on the other side, then you're ahead of the game.(Speaker 2) So I don't think you and I have ever talked about this. So I don't want to dive into NLP because you can get in the weeds on that. But one of the basic principles of NLP is people look for evidence of what they believe to be true and make everything else an exception?(Speaker 5) Yes.(Speaker 2) So how do we deal with that from a sales perspective?(Speaker 1) So let's look at it from the standpoint of what we call that in the mental health perspective is that it's a bias. Okay. We come into, because the way we operate is, as I said, we develop a system of beliefs. Okay. And we have to, because if we didn't develop those, that knowledge base or those beliefs off of our experiences, we would, we'd be dead. We have to gather experiences, make an understanding and determination about them in order to move forward and keep surviving. So we are at all times sort of(Speaker 1) categorizing things and learning. Our brains are learning what this is and what this means. If this happens, this is what I do. Okay? Those are your beliefs. Now, if I spend a lot of time gathering experiences, making predetermined beliefs, can you imagine the distress that would cause in your body to suddenly at the age, you know, when you're older, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70. Can you imagine somebody coming along and trying to prove why your belief is wrong? Anything that pushes against that our brains are is going to see as danger. So we tend to ignore tons of evidence that we might be wrong, or maybe things have changed, because below our level of awareness,(Speaker 1) we have given our brain the assignment to look for proof as to why our beliefs should remain and can remain intact, therefore, I have more control. I'm safer. Does that make sense?(Speaker 13) It's-(Speaker 4) Makes complete sense.(Speaker 1) Yeah, so we have this sort of bias towards looking for what we believe is true because that's safer. To have that completely challenged is throws me into a sense of powerlessness, fear of the unknown.(Speaker 1) Because if I don't know what I thought, if that's wrong, then I don't know what's going on. Your brain's going to respond to that as danger.(Speaker 2) So I have an interesting real life story about this.(Speaker 1) Which I love your real life stories.(Speaker 2) Most of them are true. This is true. The largest sale I ever made generated over a million dollars in commissions. Nice. They didn't all go to me. I had, there were a lot of moving parts in this deal(Speaker 2) and I had to bring in, I didn't have to, I chose to bring in, I didn't have to, I chose to bring in partners to help. And we knew it was going to be a bit of a sales cycle. We were talking about a major change in one of their plans, but we had a solution that was going to save them dollars worth of money a year. It drug on and drug on and drug on and it had been three,(Speaker 2) almost three years. And it was at the CFO level. And I got a call from somebody in the company who said, Hey, the CFO retired and we've got a new CFO and we need you to meet with him. And I'm thinking, oh gosh, we're gonna have to start over.(Speaker 2) Well, in retrospect, what I realized is the plan that we were putting into effect wasn't gonna benefit the CFO because he was retired.(Speaker 11) Oh, wow.(Speaker 2) And he was the one making the decision.(Speaker 1) Well, that puts you in a bit of a conundrum.(Speaker 2) Right. Well, but him, I understand now him putting it off, putting it off, putting it off because the fear of messing up or the fear of missing out. And as long as he put it up to when he was going to retire, because he wasn't going to benefit from it anyway. I believe that that took place there.(Speaker 2) The cool end of the story is the first meeting I have with the CEO. We talked and I went through all the stuff that we did. And he said, why don't we have this? And this was the plan that we had proposed. And 60 days later, they had it.(Speaker 1) Wow, look at that. Well, I love the way you sort of reflected on that and nailed it because as I said before, if I can understand what drives someone else's behavior and understand what drives mine, then I can sort of understand better how to approach a problem. Because if you can't imagine yourself in somebody else's shoes, if you're trying to convince(Speaker 1) somebody of something, you need to be able to sort of put yourself in their shoes and see what would bring down my stress. What can I do in this situation? So it's something that once you learn how to do it, it becomes easier and easier. And the other thing about that is that it is absolutely 100% possible to change any ingrained behavior or belief that is sort of creating a wall for you. Ultimately, our neurons fire together(Speaker 1) every time we do something over and over, the repetition. Okay, that makes sense. I mean, the more I do something, the easier it becomes. That's because you're creating a new neural pathway. The same thing that, like, let's say if, you know, when you were first starting to play a sport, okay,(Speaker 1) you didn't come out and just kill it at the level you do now if you've been playing for 10 years and being training for 10 years.(Speaker 12) Sure.(Speaker 1) Now, all kinds of things have happened and you've created new neural pathways of how to go about things until it becomes automatic. The same thing is true with negative thoughts and or behaviors that are not really getting you in the long run the result that you want. You have to remember that in the moment where you feel that discomfort, that is below your level of awareness, your brain saying, there's danger here because it's the unknown.(Speaker 1) That is the moment that really changes your life in terms of achieving goals if you can lean into that and go the opposite direction. So the more you do that, the easier it becomes. And until it becomes automatic, that works with thoughts, negative thoughts about yourself, anything, anything.(Speaker 2) So I believe you've addressed this, but I want to address it directly. OK. I believe you've addressed this, but I want to address it directly. Okay. What they did, what the kind of the summary of the jolt effect was people, not that they were comfortable with either one, but they were more comfortable with missing out than messing up.(Speaker 1) Sure. So they're more comfortable with missing out on messing up. Sure. So they're more comfortable with missing out on an opportunity? Okay. Right.(Speaker 2) They're messing up and it being the wrong opportunity.(Speaker 1) Right. I mean, because if I don't make the decision, you can't tell me that, you know, it didn't happen. So I feel better about that because now I'm still in a similar situation that I've always been in. Even if it's not amazing, it's still what I know. That means to your brain, maybe not your thinking brain, but(Speaker 1) to the part that is driving your behavior, that means safety. Even if it's uncomfortable, it's still safety because all that part of the brain knows is this is familiar. I know what to do. I have control. So if I make this decision, that puts me at a lot more risk, and that's where the anxiety comes in. And it's much easier to stay in something that I know, because then my brain understands this is familiar.(Speaker 2) So you said something in your answer that just resonated with me, and that is control.(Speaker 1) Absolutely. The opposite of control is powerlessness. Powerlessness is one of the, nobody wants to feel that way, it's awful. And if the brain's main job is to keep us safe, it's always going to want to default to what it already knows.(Speaker 1) Even if what it already knows is really not ideal or it doesn't even feel good, it's still to that area of the brain driving your behaviors, it's still, well, I know what to expect.(Speaker 4) So let me ask you about this. Um, I've been in sales for 45 years.(Speaker 2) Okay. When I first got into sales, one of the things I first learned is people have to know, like, and trust you before they buy, or they want to buy from somebody they know, like, and trust you before they buy. Or they wanna buy from somebody they know, like, and trust. That is still true today, it has never changed. But what has changed is how we build know, like, and trust.(Speaker 2) Back in the, when I started, the way you did it is you took people to sporting events, or plays, or concerts,(Speaker 11) or lunches, dinners, played tennis, golf with them, way you did it is you took people to sporting events or plays or concerts or(Speaker 2) lunches, dinners, play tennis, golf with them, those kinds of things.(Speaker 10) Yeah.(Speaker 2) One of the things I tell people all the time that baby boomers, older gen Xers is you have to meet buyers where they are, not where we wish they are.(Speaker 9) I love it.(Speaker 2) My 39 year old daughter doesn't want to go to a play or a concert with you. If she's going to go to a play or a concert, she wants to go with her friends. So we have to build know, like, and trust with those people in a different way.(Speaker 1) Exactly right.(Speaker 8) How do you,(Speaker 2) I guess I'd call it like learning for different decades. So if I'm selling my daughter something, I've got to do it a different way than I grew up doing it. How do baby boomers,(Speaker 1) Gen Xers make that shift in their thinking? Yeah, for sure. This is where it gets, we could go super in depth here. But let's look at it from the perspective of why it's so hard. That's because, as I said before, the brain is malleable. It can create new neural pathways. And there's also a lot more going on in terms of when we talk about acceptance and approval, that has a... Neurotransmitters are released every time we get sort of approval. Dopamine, serotonin, all those feel-good things, right?(Speaker 1) It's like a surge. Now, when we look at the generations, the generations that have been raised on instantaneous, copious amounts of information, especially everything is about approval, everything. How many likes did I get? Right?(Speaker 1) So we have literally created a generation that is dependent upon their behavior, is driven to think. The brains think that this is how I need to operate. If I'm feeling anxious, I need to go in and make that go down.(Speaker 1) And that's by checking to see, I'm gonna seek out more approval. I'm gonna put up this picture. I'm gonna tap in. I'm gonna like this. I'm gonna like that.(Speaker 1) And I'm gonna see how many likes I get. It's instantaneous. The way the brains operate, even at a neurotransmitter level has changed. It's that instant feed. It's basically like if I live my entire life, for the most part, my entire life, believing that a banana, a yellow fruit that I peel, is a banana.(Speaker 1) I'm told it's a banana. It's a banana. It's a banana. And then I'm handed an apple and said, here, have a banana. I'm sitting here going, what? No, it's not.(Speaker 1) It's a freaking banana. I know this. We're dealing with two different realities,(Speaker 7) two different realities, two(Speaker 1) different realities. And so you have to get to know sort of what is their framework, get to know them, but also know that they are going to want approval. They are going to want safety just like we do, but it's not going to come in the same framework. We have to learn how to speak their language too. It's probably a more in-depth program, but that being said, it's enough to know that we have to start appreciating(Speaker 1) that there is an enormous difference between generations and how our brains work. And it sometimes can seem really annoying to us that are, we, listen, I'm of that generation where, yeah, no. I mean, you had phones that were attached to the wall and if you had a busy signal, oh well, you know?(Speaker 1) So there weren't all these constant, constant bids for attention and approval and nothing was instantaneous. You had to wait for the fricking mail to come to the mailbox. So the brains work completely differently.(Speaker 2) Yeah, and this is definitely a subject for a different show, but in addition to that, now you gotta figure out if you're communicating with a real person or AI bot.(Speaker 1) Wow, yeah, I mean, how many times have you gotten irritated when you've sort of run into that? You know, it's fascinating to me that I found myself getting frustrated and irritated when I happened to be looking at, I think it was, I don't know, I think it was YouTube, I think.(Speaker 1) And it had just sort of, you know how they have those little clips, those shorts, little reels? And it was, it showed males from different countries. And they were like, I guess they were the ideal male ideal. And he was holding a baby that would be the ideal.(Speaker 1) And they were from different places all over the world. And so the idea was that here is the ideal, what the majority of people are attracted to. And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, yeah, they are like physically, from a physical standpoint, absolutely. Wow. That's like, geez, that's perfect. And then at the end, I was reading on the bottom, and it was all basically, it was all generated by AI. I mean, they were not real.(Speaker 1) These were not real people. They didn't exist. I'm like, well, stop.(Speaker 6) It frustrated me.(Speaker 1) And I found out why I was so irritated was because to me, that means where are we now headed in the world? My brain automatically went into a sense of I don't control this. Where is it going?(Speaker 1) This is unfamiliar. And so I actually did feel that mine came out as frustration and irritation, but it was really fear. Fear of the unknown and where we're headed in life.(Speaker 2) All right. I'm going to give you the last word, but I'm going to have one word before you have your last word. Okay. And I promise that your word will be last.(Speaker 1) That's okay. I did win the arm wrestling before the show,(Speaker 6) so I do get that.(Speaker 2) So if I had to tell baby boomers, older Gen Xers, one thing about dealing with the 39-year-old buyer, I would say you've got to meet the buyer where they are. You've got to be able to communicate the way they communicate. And it's up to you, not them.(Speaker 1) Right.(Speaker 2) If you shared one thing, what would you share?(Speaker 1) Well, first of all, I will underscore what you just said. And that takes... Here's what I would say. That takes leaning into the discomfort and knowing that it's okay. Lean in. Get comfortable feeling uncomfortable. If you want to change anything in your life because it's not working for you. Get comfortable being uncomfortable because what you are actually trying to do is convince the part of your brain that is going to drive you to the known every single time. And you have to be willing to lean into that distress(Speaker 5) and do something new that's not going to feel good. you have to be willing to lean into that distress(Speaker 4) and do something new that's not gonna feel good.(Speaker 2) So, before we wrap up, I'll leave, I think we can leave them with this. You gotta meet the buyers where they are and you've gotta lean into being uncomfortable doing it. And the more you lean into doing it, the better you'll get at it, the more comfortable you'll into doing it, the better you'll get at it, the more comfortable you'll get at it, right?(Speaker 3) Absolutely.(Speaker 1) Repetition, repetition, repetition, until it becomes the automatic, until your brain is familiar with the sensation, which would be like, what am I sensing? What is going on here? And then the brain has now learned a new thing to try to get it to a much better,(Speaker 1) reasonable response or area. That now is the known. The unknown now becomes the known. Yeah. And I think that it's... I honestly do believe that there's so... The other key information is be willing to learn because you always can, and don't be afraid of the learning because I don't know what I don't know. That is kind of where I operate from.(Speaker 1) And I am willing to admit that, well, I don't know what I don't know. And that means that there's more I can learn.(Speaker 2) Great. Well, Kate, we could talk about this for hours. But we're talking to very busy people that need to get on with their day. I'm sure that they've learned a lot today, and I look forward to having you back on the show to talk about this some more. Where can people reach you if they want to? Well if they(Speaker 1) would like to I would be happy to speak with them at any time. I can be reached at the email that is going below the screen as well as a phone number. You can text or call me, leave me a message. I'm happy to answer any questions. I do work in the Norcross area, Peachtree area. So it's kind of, what would you call that area? I mean, we call it Berkeley Lake, but that's really unknown.(Speaker 1) What would you call it?(Speaker 2) I'd call it Johns Creek, Georgia, by the way. And you can be available by phone, of course.(Speaker 1) 100%, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate it. And I think that you've hit upon something that is really, really suitable for like a deeper dive because this can even go into how do I make a goal and how do I achieve that goal?(Speaker 1) Every single time.(Speaker 2) Well, you just gave me the topic for the next time you're on the show.(Speaker 1) Yeah, there's actually just a framework and the hardest part about doing it is doing it. Sure. Get comfortable being uncomfortable, but it works.(Speaker 2) Thanks, Kate. I wanna wrap up with this. First, I want to thank Fist Bump for sponsoring our show today. And I want you, this is the main thing I want you to remember. This isn't about starting over. If you've been in sales for 50 years, 40 years, 30 years, you've got to be good at it or you still wouldn't be in sales.(Speaker 2) This is, it's not about starting over, it's about evolving. And it's about old school wisdom and new school tools. That's what I'll leave you today. Thanks for being on the show. You know where to reach me from the scrolls below. And if we can't help you you I promise we know somebody that(Speaker 2) And if we can't help you you I promise we know somebody that can and we'll direct you there. Thanks Kate. Thank you much. I appreciate it.

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Robert (Butch) Nicholson

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